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superduke forum • View topic - Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

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raymondt
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Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby raymondt » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:54 am

Gentlemen:
I have a 2007 SD990 with 16k on the clock. Coolant showed up in the oil and it lost oil pressure so I shut her down. Drained everything. pulled her apart and replaced the coolant pump seal and shaft after reading of this common failure. Replaced all gaskets and seals, buttoned her back up with fresh oil, filters and coolant, and it did the same thing within minutes while just warming up in the garage! Very frustrating after all the work and money. Now what? Is there another spot? A head gasket or something that may have failed? Please help, I want to put a bullet in it like Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man! Crap... Help? :?

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RichUK
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Re: Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby RichUK » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:36 am

Are you actually losing coolant?
Has the level dropped in the radiator or reservoir?

I'm just wondering of there was still coolant left in the engine after the first oil change, though to be honest that does seem unlikely.

I'd say that if you suspect the head then next thing would be to pressure test the cooling system to see if it is leaking.

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No. 47
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Re: Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby No. 47 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:21 am

Did you replace the pump shaft and bearings?
'08 ex-Battle race KTM Superduke 990 R No.47
'08 OE KTM Superduke 990 R
'01 Ducati 996S

raymondt
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Re: Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby raymondt » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:11 pm

Gentlemen:
I actually replaced the oil twice, since I was thinking possibly some was captured somewhere in the system. It is definitely going in from the cooling system somewhere. I did replace all the usual oils seals, and put new seal, bearings, cir-clips,and shaft as well as a factory gasket around the pump housing and the side cover and the main cover, as well as new o-rings on the metal pump tube. I really did not want any leaks.
When I drained it this last time I noticed that there was allot of milky coolant in the tank, but not in the bottom end, but I shut it off as soon as I lost Oil Pressure again, as the coolant changed the viscosity. Crap..... Thanks for the brainstorming guys!

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RichUK
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Re: Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby RichUK » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:35 pm


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RichUK
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Re: Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby RichUK » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:41 pm

I'm in a similar boat btw.
I believe I have a small cylinder to coolant breach on one of my head gaskets... :( so shortly I'll be stripping down to leak down test each cylinder to try and prove that there is a leak and also which cylinder it is.

raymondt
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Re: Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby raymondt » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:47 pm

I only replaced the filter once, It was not collapsed or crumpled up although it did not run long. I guess I could do it again, put another new filter in it and more oil and see what happens, but the coolant level did drop in the radiator and went into the oil nearly right away. Sounds like I need to figure out how to pressurize the radiator and see what happens there. No fluid leaks outside the bike, only into the oil once you start it up. Sounds like it is not straight forward where to look next?

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RichUK
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Re: Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby RichUK » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:02 am

There are things you could try, like running with no oil filter briefly to see if you still lose oil pressure quickly, but if you are sure you are losing coolant then that is pretty damming.

There are radiator test kits you can buy that will either pressurise or draw a vacuum in your system. I suspect some local garage/workshops will have one and could test yours for you.

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No. 47
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Re: Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby No. 47 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:31 am

Some on here have had problems rebuilding the water pump, particularly with seating or splitting the shaft seal - suggest checking the water pump again first.
'08 ex-Battle race KTM Superduke 990 R No.47
'08 OE KTM Superduke 990 R
'01 Ducati 996S

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RichUK
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Re: Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby RichUK » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:53 am

Just a visual inspection of the seal maybe?

raymondt
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Re: Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby raymondt » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:26 am

I think I will pressurize the coolant and see if it drops. I can then pop the cover off and pull the impeller to check out the seal. Im not sure I would be able to detect the problem unless it is noticeably damaged or displaced. Note that the last time I ran it, there was no coolant in the oil from the bottom plug where I would expect it to go from the seal, instead the oil in the tank was a creamy mess when I drained it. Good Idea to try it without the oil filter for a few. I ordered up another filter and a pressure tester and will let you know how I make out. Thanks Guys!

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RichUK
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Re: Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby RichUK » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:17 am

I have seen pictures of water pump seals that have basically crumbled away around the seal within a few hundred miles of being changed. That was down to poor seal material and/or poor installation. I think that was on a 990 Adventure bike but it doesn't happen often and I don't think it's a fast leak either.
By the sound of it yours doesn't even require the engine to heat up before it's dump a substantial amount of coolant in.

Unless it isn't leaking. It is possible the the cream was just left in the oil tank from before, the coolant level drop it just air burping into the radiator, and the oil pressure issue is something else.

stolenduke
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Re: Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby stolenduke » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:28 pm

I saw this post on another forum, it might be relevant;

''Got a RC8 brand new in 2010. Oil leaks from the water pump housing from a couple hundred miles. Went back over 8 times in the six months I had it, to be fair everytime it went back I always got booked in straight away and got a courtesy bike. Every time they replaced the water pump seal/shaft and changed coolant and oil/filters. They would last between two hours and two weeks before failing and leaking again. On the last one I had to get in touch with KTM in Austria, who in turn sent out the UK technical expert to the dealership, he found that the water pump housing had been mis-machined by a fraction of a mm, this in turn caused the shaft to run eccentrically, causing the seal to fail almost immediately.

If I hadn't got in touch with KTM directly I think the dealers would have endlessly changed seals until the warranty had expired. I ended up trading it in against an s1000rr a few months later (which has been pretty much faultless), as coolant and oil had mixed so many times I thought it was potentially a time bomb due to potential bearing issues due to this''

raymondt
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Re: Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby raymondt » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:29 am

Gentlemen, and I use that term loosely in this hooligan crowd.
It seems like its possible that it is indeed resolved! I hate to jinx it but.... I cleaned and drained every drop of oil I could, I checked the seal and it seemed fine from what I could see. I pulled the oil filter and replaced the KTM unit with some English unit. Filled her up with fresh oil and started her up. The Oil Pressure light was on. I ran it up and down the street and the light flickered and went off until I pulled into the garage then flickered again some. I checked the oil level and it had dropped off the scale so added more until it was indicating full again, I did not see any coolant in the oil tank or sight glass. Normal stuff I guess, with this dry sump motor. When It cools down, I will check the coolant level then I will take it out for a "Trophy Run" and see if there are any lingering problems. Im sure getting her full pressure warm oil everywhere and up to temp for a while will help with and residual water.
It is possible that there was just coolant trapped in the engine somewhere that mixed with the oil the first time after I changed the seal and a air pocket in the cooling circuit after draining and flushing it. You may have guessed it Rich, I F'N hope so!
I have my fingers crossed. I will let you know what happens, but thanks for all the pointers guys, you rock!.

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RichUK
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Re: Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby RichUK » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:24 am

Great news, fingers crossed for the Trophy run. :mrgreen:

raymondt
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Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:19 am
Location: Johnstown Colorado

Re: Coolant in Oil, Not from Pump Seal, Please Help

Postby raymondt » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:14 am

It is back to operational status! No issues. I checked the pressure leak down with the kit that finally arrived and no coolant loss and seems to be fine. Thanks for all of the help and support boyz!


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