RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby Lowrance » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:18 am

Well I hope you got it Guy....time will tell.

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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby Oupy » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:56 am

Good find Guy, any idea what may have caused this to happen on it's own and any reassurance it won't happen again?

Still not sure i quite understand the method how to fix, i worry of any solution that would require the dealer interact with the rottweiler filter, the levels of incompetence is frightening.

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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby ktmguy » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:27 am

Oupy wrote:Good find Guy, any idea what may have caused this to happen on it's own and any reassurance it won't happen again?

Still not sure i quite understand the method how to fix, i worry of any solution that would require the dealer interact with the rottweiler filter, the levels of incompetence is frightening.


Once the throttle bodies are balanced they will stay that way forever.

Added some pics and a small how to in the original fixed post!!
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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby Oupy » Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:46 pm

Can this be done by the dealer without having to remove the rottweiler airbox? If not I may have to do it myself as I don't think I trust them to put it back together properly :(

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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby ktmguy » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:24 am

Oupy wrote:Can this be done by the dealer without having to remove the rottweiler airbox? If not I may have to do it myself as I don't think I trust them to put it back together properly :(


Nope, need to take it apart to get access to the screw really.
If done on the diagnostic tool at idle there might be a possibility to get he screw from the side if you take the little black cover off ( right hand version of the one that is the coolant reservoir on the left.


On another note, did ride it some more today and it's much smoother. My '14 was smooth at 4500rpm and some people reported their bike was not.
This '15 one was not as smooth but now it's better than the '14 before.
In my opinion anyone who has this issue to could benefit from getting the balance done!
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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby abc » Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:11 am

ktmguy wrote:Once the throttle bodies are balanced they will stay that way forever.

Added some pics and a small how to in the original fixed post!!


For those of us that are too stupid to find the original fixed post could you post a quick link please :?
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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby Oupy » Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:19 am

abc wrote:
ktmguy wrote:Once the throttle bodies are balanced they will stay that way forever.

Added some pics and a small how to in the original fixed post!!


For those of us that are too stupid to find the original fixed post could you post a quick link please :?


Bottom of page 1 in this thread 8)

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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby ktmguy » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:08 am

Oupy wrote:
abc wrote:
ktmguy wrote:Once the throttle bodies are balanced they will stay that way forever.

Added some pics and a small how to in the original fixed post!!


For those of us that are too stupid to find the original fixed post could you post a quick link please :?


Bottom of page 1 in this thread 8)


+1

Duh!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Here you go old buddy!
http://superduke.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=25461#p316030
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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby abc » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:30 am

And here I was searching for another thread when it was right under my nose all the time - sorry my bad :cry:
They certainely were a long way out of balance - very ordinary quality control me tinks
And Guy - why would you ever want a job at ktm, nothing special there and you would just cause trouble because you care to address all the little shitty issues that drive owners mad with frustration…….
Thank you for the link.
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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby Oupy » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:47 am

Is this the screw that needs to be adjusted?

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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby ktmguy » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:52 am

Oupy wrote:Is this the screw that needs to be adjusted?

Image


No buddy, that is the stop!
The balance screw is above that, push the flies open by pushing that lever in your picture forward. It's ok to do that with the key off.
When you do that you see the screw turning downwards from the top.
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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby Oupy » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:38 am

Bugger, Thought i may have been in luck!

Looks like it will be a air box removal affair :(

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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby ktmguy » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:01 am

Oupy wrote:Bugger, Thought i may have been in luck!

Looks like it will be a air box removal affair :(


With a rotty box it's a 30 min job tops!
Watch over their shoulder if you have to or take it home and do it yourself.
Basically I gave you all the info how to do it.
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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby rm2092 » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:20 am

I still don't get how my bike was good, no problems until I swapped out the exhaust ?
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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby ktmguy » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:16 pm

rm2092 wrote:I still don't get how my bike was good, no problems until I swapped out the exhaust ?


No it wasn't! The problem gets worse when you do filter or exhaust which I think is due to better flow.
The improvement is that big when sorted that you will realise it was there before but not that apparent.

When new the return to idle sounded like an old V-twin which confuses people that it's ok and normal.
Now that it's sorted the return to idle is fast as a modern high performance engine should be. (almost like a IL4)
Blipping the throttle is possible and now sounds like a proper race engine.

Benefits so far!
Fast return to idle and proper engine braking.
Runs heaps smoother it's like a different engine.
Seat of the pants dyno says its got more go at WOT which I think is due to the fact that that one butterfly actually overshoots and start to close on the other side.

Last one might be subjective but I'm pretty sure I'm right about it. The flies can actually open past 100% by a fair bit and so one of them can actually be pushed open behind that point.
All I can say is do it and balance them! Even if you don't have problems I'm sure it will improve the bike!
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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby Oupy » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:43 am

Sounds like great benefits and will cure exactly the issues i have been having.

Should this issue have shown up when the bike was plugged into the diagnostic tool? Just wondering if i do take it into the workshop to have it done under warranty the tool will say everything is fine?

Also can you point out on this pic the screw that needs adjusting?

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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby ktmguy » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:36 am

Oupy wrote:Sounds like great benefits and will cure exactly the issues i have been having.

Should this issue have shown up when the bike was plugged into the diagnostic tool? Just wondering if i do take it into the workshop to have it done under warranty the tool will say everything is fine?

Also can you point out on this pic the screw that needs adjusting?

Image



It's the screw that lies flat on your picture above the right (rear) butterfly covered in yellow paint.

No faults show up on the diagnostic tool as it is an imbalance not a fault.
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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby Oupy » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:40 am

Called the dealer about this today, he mentioned that when it was in last time he checked the readout from the diagnostic tool and the vacuum looked fairly equal for both cylinders and intimated that they wouldn't pull the bike apart to check.

Still going to check myself on the weekend, does what he said hold any weight?

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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby robertkehl » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:21 pm

In the old days we called this balancing the carbs we didn't use a mechanical measurement to do this. We used vacuum gauges or Motion Pro mercury gauges. Much more accurate. The results were smoother idle and on and off throttle.
The 1290 is what the 990 was suppose to be.


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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby ktmguy » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:02 pm

robertkehl wrote:In the old days we called this balancing the carbs we didn't use a mechanical measurement to do this. We used vacuum gauges or Motion Pro mercury gauges. Much more accurate. The results were smoother idle and on and off throttle.


+1!

I was going to do that but I don't have a gauge anymore as on the 990 we could just do it with tuneecu.
I just wanted it done do I did it mechanically but vacuum is the proper way of doing it.
Surprisingly suddenly with injected bikes it's no more needed, my ar....!
I still can't believe how smooth it is now.
I'll have a look with the dealer and the diagnostic tool when the head mechanic is back next week to see if it reads out the vacuums too. I'm pretty sure it does.
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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby rm2092 » Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:54 am

Sorry can be get a better step by step, I was a bit confused to how you made the correction ?
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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby Shawn verkerk » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:39 am

Ok today I sent Ktm guys step by step and pics to my dealer.... And what I get from my dealer "we put on a new throttle body so that's not the problem ".... But I'll check.......and the he tells me that they are waiting for a response from Ktm USA! But wait! He tells me they now think it's a emissions problem! I've been following all of you guys on this forum for over a year now and I am very mechanically inclined! I'm Almost at week 8 that my bike has been at the dealers. KTM GUY I'm new with this bike and have some questions! After I get this problem resolved I'm installing the rotti filter and 2 rotti 80mm stacks with the rotti canister delete,Pcv,auto tune. I already have the sas removed with dongle In place with the Austin racing gp 2 shorty full exhaust. While doing the intake after idle problem fix is it worth it to remove both flys and leave the tps rods in? Like I said I'm new hahahah! Want this bike to perform like a champ!Ok today I sent Ktm guys step by step and pics to my dealer.... And what I get from my dealer "we put on a new throttle body so that's not the problem ".... But I'll check.......and the he tells me that they are waiting for a response from Ktm USA! But wait! He tells me they now think it's a emissions problem! I've been following all of you guys on this forum for over a year now and I am very mechanically inclined! I'm Almost at week 8 that my bike has been at the dealers. KTM GUY I'm new with this bike and have some questions! After I get this problem resolved I'm installing the rotti filter and 2 rotti 80mm stacks with the rotti canister delete,Pcv,auto tune. I already have the sas removed with dongle In place with the Austin racing gp 2 shorty full exhaust. While doing the intake after idle problem fix is it worth it to remove both flys and leave the tps rods in? Like I said I'm new hahahah! Want this bike to perform like a champ! Thx

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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby ktmguy » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:00 am

Shawn verkerk wrote:Ok today I sent Ktm guys step by step and pics to my dealer.... And what I get from my dealer "we put on a new throttle body so that's not the problem ".... But I'll check.......and the he tells me that they are waiting for a response from Ktm USA! But wait! He tells me they now think it's a emissions problem! I've been following all of you guys on this forum for over a year now and I am very mechanically inclined! I'm Almost at week 8 that my bike has been at the dealers. KTM GUY I'm new with this bike and have some questions! After I get this problem resolved I'm installing the rotti filter and 2 rotti 80mm stacks with the rotti canister delete,Pcv,auto tune. I already have the sas removed with dongle In place with the Austin racing gp 2 shorty full exhaust. While doing the intake after idle problem fix is it worth it to remove both flys and leave the tps rods in? Like I said I'm new hahahah! Want this bike to perform like a champ!Ok today I sent Ktm guys step by step and pics to my dealer.... And what I get from my dealer "we put on a new throttle body so that's not the problem ".... But I'll check.......and the he tells me that they are waiting for a response from Ktm USA! But wait! He tells me they now think it's a emissions problem! I've been following all of you guys on this forum for over a year now and I am very mechanically inclined! I'm Almost at week 8 that my bike has been at the dealers. KTM GUY I'm new with this bike and have some questions! After I get this problem resolved I'm installing the rotti filter and 2 rotti 80mm stacks with the rotti canister delete,Pcv,auto tune. I already have the sas removed with dongle In place with the Austin racing gp 2 shorty full exhaust. While doing the intake after idle problem fix is it worth it to remove both flys and leave the tps rods in? Like I said I'm new hahahah! Want this bike to perform like a champ! Thx


Stupidity of people knows no boundaries! (Proof is my next door neighbours! :twisted: )
It doesn't need any parts it just needs the throttle bodies balanced. But hey they are "qualified mechanics" what does someone else on the internet know!! :roll:
I would start talking about lemon laws If I was you. no way I leave my bike at a dealer for weeks on end. This is ridiculous!
Instead of following some proven advice they will f around and when they are lucky and the new throttle bodies turned out better than the old they be all proud they solved it.
If you don't do anything stupid when young, you have nothing to smile about when old!


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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby Oupy » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:54 am

rm2092 wrote:Sorry can be get a better step by step, I was a bit confused to how you made the correction ?


This is what i am going to do, please jump in Guy if you see any issues with the procedure.

- Open flies and put something in the front cylinder to hold flies open.
- Adjust rear fly using the screw to reach the same opening - use something with exactly the same diameter as what is used in the front cylinder to measure
- Once flies are synced (or as close to as possible) put everything back together

2 Questions for you Guy:

- Does it matter what the diameter of the 2 items holding open the flies? Could 2 pens be used for example?
- Is a 10 min reset procedure recommended after sync?

Cheers

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Re: RPM'S Hangs around 2-3k why ?

Postby ktmguy » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:30 am

Oupy wrote:
This is what i am going to do, please jump in Guy if you see any issues with the procedure.

- Open flies and put something in the front cylinder to hold flies open.
- Adjust rear fly using the screw to reach the same opening - use something with exactly the same diameter as what is used in the front cylinder to measure
- Once flies are synced (or as close to as possible) put everything back together

2 Questions for you Guy:

- Does it matter what the diameter of the 2 items holding open the flies? Could 2 pens be used for example?
- Is a 10 min reset procedure recommended after sync?

Cheers


Correct!
Just make sure the "somethings" you use are solid and the same diameter. Measure with verniers or so. The two 12 mm drill bits I used still are 0.02mm different. (don't think it needs to be that precise but hey)
The flies need to be a fair bit open to be able to measure properly and turn the screw so less than 10mm would make it more difficult.
Also make sure you don't drop stuff in the engine as you move the second fly the first moves too and could release what yo have there. Use a laundry peg or these mechanic telescopic magnets to hold it up.
A 12mm drill can't really disappear down the engine but it's not good to knock aluminium engine parts with sharp hardened steel!
You need your 2 hands free to measure- adjust at the rear throttle body so secure whatever "gauge" you use at the front one.

I believe the 10 reset would be beneficial but I haven't done it yet. I'll go to the dealer tomorrow and reset the adaptive parameters with the tool.

Look forward to see your results!
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